Dropping the engine in?

"My bird IS the word" (mybirdistheword)
03/09/2019 at 15:11 • Filed to: None

Quickie for oppo: last time I took my engine and tranny out as one. Didn't like it. Now, I just want to get my engine in so I can test run it. Trans is not quite ready. I heard the appropriate method is tranny THEN engine, how bad would I be screwing myself by doing engine then tranny? 2nd gen firebird for those unfamiliar.

DISCUSSION (13)

deekster_caddy > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 15:24

It’s really not bad the way you are planning to do it. As long as you aren’t making exhaust changes where the trans will be in the way, and you don’t mind putting in the trans from underneath, go for it. Also, assuming you aren’t making any changes to the motor mount positions etc - if you are you would want to work back to front, trans and driveshaft positioned properly before you position the engine.

lone_liberal > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 15:37

How high can you get the car? I’ve helped a friend replace the clutch in a 79 Camaro (427 big block equipped) in a gravel parking lot and it’s doable but would have been easier if we could have gotten the car higher. With my Camaro I’ve always taken them out and put them back in as a unit.

My bird IS the word > lone_liberal
03/09/2019 at 16:00

I have jackstands, and a shitton of wall block to set it on. On a regular driveway, so I can comfortably crawl underneath.

My bird IS the word > deekster_caddy
03/09/2019 at 16:03

Stock mounts, but I am running longtube headers. The rest of the exhaust can go on after.

If anything, the longtubes may be in the way of me working, but not in the way of the trans.

lone_liberal > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 16:12

I’ve never tried it with an automatic, which is obviously larger than a four speed, so I can’t say for sure but as long as you have help I’d guess you can do it. There might be a fair amount of swearing involved, though.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 16:14

I’m going to have to say it depends on the car. I don’t really know enough about Camarobirds to comment specifically on it. But I have some experience with engine and trans removals in other platforms.

The first time an engine came out of one of my rides, the trans was left in place. Jeep 4.0/aw4(automatic) in a Comanche. Looks like it came straight up pretty nicely, a ccessories were pulled and radiator was left in place.

I later had the transmission out the truck and it came out and went in the bottom with no issues.

When I pulled the engine back out of that truck, I pulled it out with the trans and tcase. I didn’t need to change the trans but I did need to do the engine and tcase, and since the trans was between them and I wasn’t positive on compatibility, I didn’t separate them. In order to do this I had to pull the whole front clip off the truck because there was no way to get the correct angle to be able to clear the front of the truck with my jack stands all the way up. This might not be so much of an issue without a tcase, but I don’t know what your setup looks like.

I’ve had the manual trans out of my Lada. It’s got a divorced transfer case, which had to come out because there isn’t enough clearance to slide the input shaft out of the clutch with it in place.

Changing the oil pan in the Niva required pulling the engine. When it came out it seemed okay, but I couldn’t get the engine back in and aligned with the input shaft for the life of me . Initially I actually buggered up the pressure plate smashing it on the firewall and had to order another which added a month to the project. I still couldn’t get it to line up properly. Eventually I pulled the trans and bolted it on to the engine out of the car, an it slid right together like it was meant to be, then dropped in as a unit with no problems at all.

Recently I yanked a four-cylinder out of my other MJ (with manual trans) separate from the trans, and had no issues getting it to line back up and go in.

With your application, I don’t really see much reason you couldn’t drop the engine back in without the trans attached. But if it’s an automatic, it might not run smoothly without the weight of the torque converter (full of fluid) acting as a flywheel. The other caveat I see is in most cases the trans is also the rear support for the engine, which might cause undo stress on the motor mounts because they’re intended as a system with that third attachment point. Something else is that the J eep 2.5L has the starter b olted to the block but the 4.0 and Lada engine have it mounted to the bellhousing, so you’d need that in place to start it unless you get real creative, and not all transmissions have removable bellhousings. (Without the trans as rear support, getting the Lada’s crank start handle lined up properly is immensely difficult). But so long as you have the clearance underneath to put the trans in, generally the engine doesn't need to come out to R&R a trans

If you have a carbed engine, it's not much wiring you need to supply power for to hook it up and get it running. It might not be impossible to do so outside the car.

My bird IS the word > lone_liberal
03/09/2019 at 16:23

Well, there was a fair amount of swearing taking it out.

lone_liberal > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 16:26

My wife says she only worries when the swearing stops.

My bird IS the word > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
03/09/2019 at 16:43

The t/a is pretty simple. Outside of a park safety switch, everythings massively beefy because musclecar. I believe they dyno tune it without the converter. Its gotta go in anyway so I really don't want to mess around with running it on the stand.

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 17:14

The dyno is a large load that would have a similar effect to a flywheel in terms of engine smoothness. But you seem to know what you’re doing.

I don’t really see any reason you can’t do the trans separately, although it’s certainly easier to line things up and bolt them together outside of the car. But also I don’t really see much point in running the engine without the trans. If it’s been dyno tuned the tuner would have noticed any problems because they’ll have a ton more instrumentation on it than you will just on your gauges. So really the only thing you’re confirming is that it’s getting power to the coil and the starter, which you don’t really need an engine in the car to discover. The only real advantage in my mind would be getting a jump on having accesories and cooling system hooked up, maybe exhaust if the engine on two mounts sits close enough to where it w ould sit with the trans in place.

My bird IS the word > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
03/09/2019 at 18:28

I don’t trust my engine builder after they fucked me over. That, and I have some work left to do on the trans, its still too cold to climb under t he car for hoirs like that

gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee > My bird IS the word
03/09/2019 at 18:53

Right. I forgot about that incident. I’d still be inclined to wait until I had everything together, but it’s probably important to fin d out if the engine’s okay sooner rather than later.

My bird IS the word > gogmorgo - rowing gears in a Grand Cherokee
03/09/2019 at 19:23

Its undoubtedly the better option, I just was hoping it wasn’t my only option. I need to see it run in the car to reduce my stress levels. If the engine runs, I didn't fuck anything up that bad. I can mess around with the acessories in the meantime and clear some space in my garage.